Russians in Nabatieh and Lebanese public culture

There was an interesting article in Al Akhbar two days ago about an estimated 1100 Russian women living in Nabatieh, married with locals, and engaged in all sorts of social activities from working in hospitals to teaching music. There is an important point worth mentioning here and that is the interesting cultural mix that results from Russian-(south of)Lebanon exposure. Lebanese that flew to Russia have I would speculate a ‘leftist’ past, and still are pretty much immersed in these ideas even if sometimes through a Shi’ite narrative. Here, I am not trying to say that behind ‘Shi’ism’ lies Leftism far from it as Leftism itself is a historical construct, but just that similar social concerns and perspective of reality and social life are serving as basis for action. And this is probably why Russian women can get along with them.

Last summer, I met a former Communist fighter who was married to a Russian woman of whom he had two kids. When I asked him about his political views and history of activism, he told me how he was attracted by the social ideals of the communist party (that had an influential institutional presence in the south) in the 60s and 70s and how he still abides by them while having a total respect for Hizbullah. He told me about how he used to carry out operations against the Israelis alongside Hizbullah although without directly coordinating with the latter. His wife is an ex gymnast champion, and his daughter who was probably 10 years old was set to become one. She exemplifies the former soviet culture of ‘State achievement’ that many Soviet went through. Her husband was very much versed into this public-state organic relation.

But beyond this, if you are looking for a public culture in Lebanon, this is where you should search primarily. Most of these people have studied in the mostly abandoned state-owned public schools, and later on universities. As an example, the vice-secretary general of Hizbullah Naim Qassem is a chemistry graduate of the Lebanese university. People who have actually used the little amount of public services offered by the Lebanese state are mostly Shi’a from the south, the Bekaa and the suburbs of the capital. It is ironic today that people accusing Hizbullah of having no ‘culture of the Lebanese state’, as it installs ‘a state within a state’ do not realize that paradoxically it is quite the reverse: Most of these people have a much more attuned sense of what the Lebanese State can potentially offer because they experienced it in their everyday life and had to make their choices of work, carrier, etc. based on that. Unfortunately today, Hizbullah risk slowly becoming like the rest of the Lebanese that is to use the State for opportunistic reason, as a front for more effectively fulfilled confessional-clientelist interests.

There are also other portions of the population whether Christians, Sunnis, Druze or what have you that also have been around these genuinely public institutions. Unfortunately, they are still locked in confessional political constraints and forced to be represented by their parochial elites. On another note, most of the richer classes of people across confessions, or let say those who managed to pay for their kids not to go in these schools and put them (gladly for most of them) in specifically confessional schools (which is the majority of schools that are privately held) have zero ‘public culture’ as in Lebanese in a comprehensive way. So here you go, do the math (it is my new favorite expression by the way).


11 Replies to “Russians in Nabatieh and Lebanese public culture”

  1. so are you trying to say that, if a family, having an inclination towards a hizbullah political ideology or line of thought, was considering enrolling their kids into a school and was offered the choice between a hizbullah-led educational institution and a state-owned school, the family would opt for the latter? i don’t know if that was the case before but now, i highly doubt it… i am quite sure that the same goes for all major confessions across lebanon… sadly that is

  2. Bech, what is the breakdown (in terms of sects) of who uses public institutions such as educational facilities? I’m having some trouble reaching your conclusion that “most of these people have a much more attuned sense of what the Lebanese State can potentially offer” because of certain fallacies such logic could suffer from.

  3. m. if you don’t say what are the fallacies of logics, and what is the logic, then I don’t think I can address your concern. Also I don’t have numbers, these are just ideas that need to be developed.

    anonymous, i’m not sure if we can generalize here but there are two things to take into consideration.

    1- Families that already have specific educational experiences that they found successful or that makes sense to them would likely stick with those. This is what people miss, being a supporter of Hizbullah does not mean you will just accept everything emanating from the party. Of course, as I said public institutions are last resort most of the time. If you have the money in Lebanon you would send your kids to private schools, those that promise to deliver results (mostly in and around beirut). People are obsessed with degrees, achievement, and basically making a living through a good position in society.

    2- There are no Hizbullah schools per se. There are religious schools but interestingly enough they are not organically linked to the party. They are run by different trends of Shi’a clerics sometimes who insist that they are not connected to Hizbullah (intellectual pride, etc.), that most of the time come from the socially-oriented, flexible Fadlallah type of background. Tell me if you need me to explain who Fadlallah is. what I mean is that what is taught in these schools, although through a religious-specific medium is very different from what is taught in say a jesuit christian school, that is much more impregnated by chauvinistic, superiority complex type of culture. Still one needs to look in details at this, and no one until now is seriously studying this. There may be a development of a specific “Shi’a” chauvinism.

    The important thing here is that Hizbullah as a movement comes from this background (experience with public schooling etc.) that has developed specific ideas of social and political reality that informs its relations with institutions in general, and would likely stick to it for the time being, although at the political clientelistic level, things may deteriorate.

  4. bech
    point 1: granted, keeping in mind that public institutions do ‘breed’ some excellent students as well… in some cases even better than those superficial students graduating from private schools… i’m sure you got what i mean

    point 2: i know there aren’t any hizbullah schools, it was more of a hypothetical question. i’m a bit doubtful of what you said there. again, this might have been the case prior to the july 2006 war. i don’t think this ‘moderate’ or ‘flexible’ trend is applicable now. people in lebanon are highly divided at the moment. i completely acknowledge the chauvinism you are referring to in most of the private schools, especially the ‘christian’ impregnated schools (if i can call them as such…). but this same chauvinism is just being dressed in another form in the others… maybe i would be making myself clearer if i give you the example of how, after the war, hizbullah grabbed the opportunity to finance the rebuilding of the homes of the refugees who had lost everything. given the ingenious organization of hizbullah as a party (along with all its affiliated organizations), i see their chauvinism only being excaerbated in the present conditions of absence of state and subsequently weakness of its civic activities… do i make any sense here?

  5. I don’t agree with your second point ‘same anonymous’. I don’t think the whole set of social practices a person engage in changes from one summer to the other.

    What I have been brought up with I’m going to carry it all my life. I’ll change of course, but incrementally and always based (dependent and structured) on what I have assimilated till then.

    Also, my whole point is to say that Hizbullah has been bypassing the state because, the rest of the political elite controlling portions of state do not want them to work in the state. Or let’s say it is much easier for Hizbullah to just reach out directly. of course there is opportunism etc. involved like in any political situation that’s for sure. but what’s important here are the dominant structures: there is no State per se, only competing fiefdoms. And the way classes of people relate to these fiefdoms is dependent on education etc. So in terms of Hizbullah crowd, most of their sets of beliefs, practices etc. come from what they already have been brought up in years ago. How they visualize the state comes from that.

    We should not generalize here among all the members and partisans of Hizbullah. I’m just pointing out the influence of certain educational institutions on the culture of classes of people.

    A bit of chauvinism here and there is always possible. This has more to do with specific experiences, specific ways of reading their political reality. But a systematic policy that structurally contains chauvinistic elements, for now, I am still not convinced that this exist.

    Tell me if it makes any sense.

  6. Why Hezbollah LOST the War in Lebanon!
    And the Current ‘Present’ Situation in Southern Lebanon

    By Gabriel al-Amin
    Beirut, Lebanon

    On July 12, 2006 Hezbollah kidnapped two Israeli soldiers that led to Israel’s war with them and, by extension, Lebanon itself. Hezbollah has been on Israel’s fence since the latter’s withdrawal from Lebanon in 2000. Israel always requested from the international community and from the Lebanese government to deploy its Lebanese Army there instead of Hezbollah militants. Hezbollah, quite naturally, refused! Hezbollah vowed to NEVER allow any other force other than itself to occupy southern Lebanon. Even during the conflict, Hezbollah said it would never agree to allow either the Lebanese army nor international monitors to patrol southern Lebanon.

    Then finally, when two IDF (Israeli Defense Force) soldiers were kidnapped, Israel found the perfect excuse it was looking for to go into Lebanon and push Hezbollah well away from the Lebanese-Israel border. Israel pursued a limited invasion and killed over 500-600 Hezbollah members during the one month war. Additionally, Israel took over every single village in southern Lebanon. During the conflict even though Hezbollah received such a blow and all its members were freaked out and on the run. Yet when the hostilities ended, Hezbollah claimed victory! But did it really win?

    Firstly, Israel agreed to a cessation of hostilities NOT because it surrendered and defeated militarily, but because of international pressure from the European Union and the United States. During this conflict Israel endured more international pressure, than it ever did in the past 10 years. Israel was put forth conditions and international agreements, such as the deployment of 15,000 Lebanese soldiers and 15,000 United Nations peace keepers into southern Lebanon, and arms embargo on Hezbollah. “This” proposal which was presented to Israel which EVEN Hezbollah agreed to accept, was something Israel was yearning for for many decades and was a once in a life time opportunity, it was a REAL “golden opportunity,” even the far right in Israel said “this is an excellent proposal, so give it a shot.” This cessation of hostilities, known as “The August Ceasefire”, was initiated by the United Nations and International Community, and was put forward before both parties, Israel and Hezbollah, Hezbollah JUMPED right on the wagon to accept, because they saw it as the only way out of the mess they got themselves into. While at the same time, Israel was more stubborn on accept this ceasefire-agreement, since they were on a winning streak. Ever since then Hezbollah has not been seen or heard from in Southern Lebanon! At long last the frail Lebanese Government has finally had a degree of sovereignty over all of its state and is finally monitoring and guarding its own borders.

    Not too long ago, nearly all television and print media images coming out of southern Lebanon were that of armed Hezbollah fighters with their guns, outposts, and banners. Not anymore! Hezbollah is now hiding under rocks in Southern Lebanon, its military might having received a substantial blow. In addition, Hezbollah is no longer enjoying the freedom and luxury of easily transferring Syrian/Iranian weaponry across the Lebanese-Syrian border or via the Beirut seaport. Much of this due to the combined efforts of a stronger Lebanese army and U.N. forces keeping a lid on such transferals.

    But even though the International Troops and the Lebanese Army keep Hezbollah in check, isn’t there still Hezbollah presence in Southern Lebanon, EVEN THOUGH they are hiding “under rocks?” The same could be said for Al Qaeda presence in the United States, who are also hiding under rocks.

    Hezbollah may portray themselves as fearsome “militants” but they are in fact cowards cowering behind Lebanese civilians. Yet, through mostly pin-point targeting, the IDF dealt a heavy blow to Hezbollah. Five to six hundred Hezbollah terrorists were killed and nearly all of their bases, headquarters and tactical infrastructure destroyed.

    Some might say, “But didn’t Hezbollah manage to shoot over one hundred rockets into Israel every single day? AND why, during the war, didn’t the Israel army/air-force ever manage to stop the Katyusha fire?” Well the answer to that would be “What’s so impressive about groups of one or two rag heads pointing and setting off an unguided Katyusha southward into Israel?” In addition to the fact that Hezbollah only needed 1% of their military might in order to shoot Katyushas from their scattered fields and caves, into Israel every day. Plus, the only way to have completely stopped the Katyusha fire would have been to occupy every square inch of South Lebanon, including 20 miles north of the Litani, and to stay there for a few months.

    Israel ‘BADLY’ miscalculated Hezbollah, those past 6 years since it withdrew from Lebanon. Why? Because in 2004, it was estimated that if Israel was to engage in war with Hezbollah, their Katyusha arsenal would result in 100 deaths per day on the Israeli side, but instead only 2 people per day were killed by those rockets. But during the war, Israel came to the realization that 99.9% of all those rocket attacks, mostly result in a lot of noise and broken windows. Prior to the war it was also estimated that if Israel launched a ground invasion, it would result in the deaths of over 70 Israeli soldiers per day, which would have left over 2000 dead on the IDF side at the end of the 34 day conflict. But only 120 soldiers were killed in total, which makes it 3-4 soldiers per day. Also, prior to the war AND during the war, both the ‘poor’ Israeli intelligence and Hezbollah itself even claimed, that the “Mighty Hezbollah Rocket Arsenal” would hit Tel-Aviv, but ‘no rocket ever made it to Tel-Aviv!’ Instead, Hezbollah, tried to send little remote controlled ‘toy’ planes there.

    The reason 120 soldiers were killed in the first place, is because what would someone expect if an army deployed 30,000 soldiers squashed together in a small, tight, open space (South Lebanon)! It was amazing that after the war, those soldier didn’t all suffer from cluster phobia. But even though Israel deployed so many soldiers in the open, Hezbollah didn’t manage to deliver that harsh blow as was estimated before the ground invasion. But after all, Hezbollah didn’t fight as courageous as the Egyptians during the Suez Canal invasion, nor as the Syrians during the war in the Golan heights.

    It shouldn’t shock the world that Hezbollah bombed a couple Israeli Merkava Tanks, because even the Palestinians have done it in the past too. Blowing up a Merkava Tank is NOT an ‘uncommon’ operation. But at the same time Israel was still advancing and still taking over every village in South Lebanon, bombing every headquarter and outpost, all Hezbollah members were on the run. Even though Israel lost a couple of tanks and didn’t destroy Hezbollah, it still doesn’t mean they (Israel) were defeated militarily. The definition of military defeat, mean: to crush the other side, force it to flee and or be on the run, or force it into surrender. Israel was not defeated militarily!

    The same can be said about the Israeli naval ship that was bombed by Hezbollah of the coast of Lebanon, during the first week of the conflict, which caused a tiny bit of damage to the ship and which resulted in the deaths of 4 Israeli naval soldiers. Once again this wasn’t a military defeat, but it was an internal flaw, which meant that; Israel needed a better anti missile naval detector radar, a better anti missile interceptor, and better armor for its ship. But did Hezbollah succeed in sinking the ship and destroying it completely, did they destroy all the Israeli naval ships of the Lebanon Coast, did Israel scurry away with all its ships with its tail in between its legs, or did Israel ask for a cease-fire? NO! Instead, Israel simultaneously the same day, brought the damaged ship back into Israel for repair and sent another ship to the Lebanon Coast to replace it.

    During and after the war, Hezbollah regretted starting the war in the first place, by kidnapped the two Israeli soldiers. But Israel on the other hand, didn’t regret going to war with Hezbollah, not even 1%. In fact Israel was ready to go for round two, but Hezbollah, will not dare even consider thinking about it.

    During the fighting, many people (both inside and outside Lebanon) finally saw Hezbollah as they really are… a terrorist group. It’s strategy had little or no military value. The rockets they launched were intended to cause terror among Israel’s citizenry. They were not aimed at Israel military targets.

    Israel never managed to destroy Hezbollah. As much as the IDF might have wanted to, the wiping out of Hezbollah was not Israel’s goal. Nor could it ever be its goal. It is against the laws of physics to destroy a guerilla/terrorist group (America is learning it the hard way with Al Qaeda) since their operatives and members are always blending in and out of the civilian populations from which they so cowardly operate. In fact NEVER in history has a guerilla group ever been destroyed.

    Additionally, rescuing the kidnapped IDF soldiers without a strong intelligence as to exactly where they were hidden, would have been a nearly impossible mission.. assuming they had not already been secreted out of Lebanon into Syria or Iran!

    We constantly hear phrases such “Hezbollah emerged stronger,” “Hezbollah is now stronger than ever,” or “Hezbollah is now seen stronger than before!” There is some truth to that. Since before the Israeli withdrawal of 2000, Hezbollah was seen as more of a small arms, home made explosive, cut and run group, but during this conflict they were able to show off their Iranian made weapons. But they were no match for the Israeli army, whom they bowed down to at the end, by feeling too threatened to attack and provoke ever again.

    When the United Nations wanted to impose a 48-hour ceasefire, it was Hezbollah which rushed to accept while Israel had to be pressured. Obviously this was because Israel had the military momentum in her favor. And when the month-long conflict ended, Hezbollah leader, Nasrallah, remained in an underground bunker, no longer enjoying frequent visits to central Beirut, giving daily “Hate Israel” speeches, driving down to his home town of southern Lebanon or enjoying first class flights to Damascus and Tehran. Nasrallah even admitted that had he known that even one percent of this war would have gone as it had, he would have NEVER kidnapped the soldiers and thus started the war!

    “We did not think, even 1 percent, that the capture would lead to a war at this time and of this magnitude. You ask me, if I had known on July 11 … that the operation would lead to such a war, would I do it? I say no, absolutely not.” – Hezbollah Leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, August 27, 2006

    In February 2007, there was a skirmish between Israeli troops and the Lebanese army on the Israel/Lebanon border, even though this skirmish that resulted in a shoot out and was unfortunate, the ray of light from all this, was that Israel was confronted and attacked by the Lebanese army and not by Hezbollah. This was one of the first signs that showed that the Lebanese army was doing its job. This was mostly due to the fact that Hezbollah lost its kingdom in Southern Lebanon, and is NOW in constant check by UNIFL, Lebanese Army, and International Troops. At least the Lebanese army was able to stand its ground and take control, unlike BEFORE the August 11 ceasefire! At least Israel finally got its wish, after 40 years, to FINALLY have the Lebanese army in control of the border. Since August 11, 2006 when the Lebanese army began its deployment in Southern Lebanon, not a single Katuysha, let alone a singe bullet was fired toward the Israeli side of the fence by Hezbollah. Unlike after the Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon in May 2000, when Hezbollah would look for any excuse to shoot Katyushas into Israel at least once every three months, but not anymore. No longer will the Israeli citizens of Northern Israel will ever live in fear once again!

    People in the Lebanese Government now hate Hezbollah, for bringing destruction to Lebanon. All of Hezbollah’s southern Beirut strong posts were destroyed by Israel. Even after the cease fire, Israel stayed in Lebanon for two more months in order to destroy all remaining Hezbollah outposts and bunkers while Hezbollah stood by and did nothing. During the conflict some of the Israel/Lebanon border fence was destroyed and torn down, and Israel was in no rush to fix it, since what’s the point? Hezbollah will not want to mess with the IDF again! Even until today some of that fence has not been fixed yet, since the only threat of infiltration, now, is from drug dealers smuggling Hashish across that border.

    But what about the Winograd Commission, “which is an independent Israeli government-appointed commission of inquiry, chaired by retired Israeli chief judge Eliyahu Winograd, which is set out to investigate and draw lessons from the failures experienced by Israel during the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict. Which resulted in a war panel, and even the resignation of high figures such as the Israeli chief of staff Dan Halutz.” The reason THIS is currently taking place in Israel, is it goes to show that Israel is a democratic country! If a “Lebanese-Winograd Commission” would be done to Hezbollah; for launching an illogical irresponsible attack on Israel, by kidnapping the two soldiers which led to the war and the destruction of Lebanon. And if a Lebanese Winograd Commission would be done to the Lebanese government; for not controlling its southern border by allowing thuggish armed militias (Hezbollah) to roam free there, allowing illegal weapon shipments via the Lebanese seaport, air port, and Syrian Lebanese border to those armed “non-governmental” militias, and allowing Syria and Iran to meddle in its politics, then Lebanon would crumble to dust! But after all, Lebanon is not a Democracy.

    Worst case scenario, the Winograd Commission and some of the failures of this war, prove, that Israel might have been defeated from within, but not militarily.

    Furthermore there hasn’t been one complaint filed against Hezbollah on behalf of UNIFL and the International Troops since last year’s August cease-fire, the only complaint filed, was against the Israeli army for their over flights over Lebanese territory. Speaking about Israeli over flights, even the Israeli army itself, hasn’t complained even once, about hostile enemy fire against its planes by Hezbollah. Since Israel withdrew from Lebanon in May 2000, up until the war last summer, they continued their daily over flight and breaches over Lebanese territory, only to find themselves being confronted by Hezbollah anti-aircraft artillery. But after the August cease-fire Israel ‘STILL’ continued its breaches over Lebanese airspace, but this time, Hezbollah hasn’t even shot one pellet at them! Maybe because they are deterred and maybe because UNIFL and the Lebanese army are now in control.

    After the war, Hezbollah saw that it could no longer push around and bully Israel, and are therefore now trying to bully the “weak” Lebanese government by; their mass demonstration, camping out in front of the Lebanese Parliament, and political assassinations.

    Israel did loose the war last summer, but not in Lebanon, but instead in Gaza. After Gilad Shalit was kidnapped, Israel began a massive military campaign in Gaza, destroying infrastructure, entering towns and cities, going after terrorists, and also trying to stop the Qassam rocket fire. But instead, all it achieved was nothing, and the results of it were, that now, the Palestinians saw even more of a weakness in Israel. After the Israeli military campaign in Lebanon, deterrence was at least achieved, BUT unlike in Gaza, after the massive military campaign took place there (Gaza), the Israeli deterrence was lost for good, and now, the Palestinians are, even, more UNDETERRED from Israel that ever! And therefore have increase their rocket fire into Israel. In addition to the fact that as soon as Israel stopped its military campaign, Hamas and other groups said, “They are now even more determined than ever to kidnap another Israeli Soldier.” In April of 2007, they acted on their promise, under the cover of intense rocket fire on the Israel town of Sderot, Hamas terrorists again attempted to infiltrate Israel in order to abduct another soldier, but failed. A month later the militant group Islamic Jihad successfully infiltrated Israel, to also try to kidnap an Israeli soldier, but also failed. At least they weren’t afraid to try!

    After the war some Arab Governments, including the Palestinians, claimed Hezbollah achieved a divine victory! But hey, lets not forget, that some of those Arab governments and Palestinians which claimed Hezbollah won that “divine victory,” are some of those “same” Arab governments who “STILL” until today claim that Syria, Egypt, and the rest of the Arab World won the 1967 War and the 1973 War! That is why after this war Israel lost its deterrence against the Palestinians, Iran, and Syria. BUT gained heavily, its deterrence, against Hezbollah.


    People from around the world, before the August cease-fire, would have never believed nor imagined that the Lebanese army would EVER be in control of its southern border. Nor, people would have never believed Lebanon would EVER be able to establish control over “illegal” arms shipments across its Lebanese/Syrian border, sea ports, and airports, and, well, it finally is!

    Hezbollah will most likely never dare kidnap IDF soldiers because they saw the might and strength of the Israeli army, and they now feel threatened. Sure, some Hezbollah sympathizers may throw rocks, wave Hezbollah flags or scream “Allah Akbar” at the Lebanese-Israeli border fence but Hezbollah rank and file are laying low. Very low! And Hezbollah is no longer the imminent threat at that very same border.

    Since the ‘moment’ the two soldiers were kidnapped and even during the war, Israel knew, they would not succeed in getting them back, in addition to the fact that destroying a guerilla group is against the laws of physics! Once people will get those two facts into their heads, then THEY will realize that, the outcomes that were achieved as a result of this conflict, were the best possible “REALISTIC” outcomes that Israel could have achieved.

    Obviously this past year, the Northern Israeli border has been the quietest it has ever been over the past 40 years.

    By, Gabriel al-Amin
    Beirut, Lebanon

    Articles and Refernces:

    UNIFL: Not ‘ONE’ complaint filed against Hezbollah since last years cease-fire
    (Jerusalem Post 6/14/2007)

    Again, Israeli gloom is misplaced (First Post – 4/17/2007)

    Lebanese army, UNIFIL are keeping Hezbollah in check (Haaretz – 2/21/2007)

    Hezbollah’s ‘Victory’? (Washington Post 9/1/2006)

    The Lebanese Winnograd Commission (Thomas Friedman, New York Times 5/10/2007)

  7. Bech : don’t like your article. Too many affirmations, and nothing to back them up. No figures, no specific detail, wou “general pic”.
    Did al-akhbar research any other region in lebanon ? Other foreigners ? Are all “russian” women formatted the same way ? Aren’t there any in other regions in Leb ? When people “abide” by the rules of communism and fully “respect” hezbollah, don’t you wonder if they have any idea of what they’re really talking about ? Wou blablabla ?
    Bref. Wou sorry I never agree with you. Wou what exactly is the background of all these russian women ? Maybe one got married and dragged all the women of her village with her mouhahaha.

    Oh, one last point : I know a lot of “Christians” (akh ya allah) who went to the lebanese uni. Do you know any ? What sample of “christians” are we exactly studying here ?

    stands for sorry I keep “animating” your blog.

  8. re-read what I wrote ya majdoubeh. most of what you say does not mean anything and has nothing to do with what I am talking about. shiddileh halik.

  9. reread what you wrote ya majdoub enta.

    btw, I need to apologize for what I’m about to say because I know you hold islamists in your heart: if I had the means right now, I would clean up every palestinian camp from 3ousbat el Ansar, Jound el Cham and other terrorrists. François el Hajj is dead today. ANOTHER CHRISTIAN. If what I’m saying is extreme, then I’m an extremist. I don’t give a shit anymore. Either the country is cleaned up, either I’m backing federalism and joining Loubnanouna.
    How can you even blame some christians from becoming extreme ?
    I swear to God, I don’t give a shit anymore about what happens to anyone else. Enough of this.


  10. Apologies for the very stupid earlier comment, I wasn’t thinking clearly, I was just completely shocked. The problem is not religious, the problem is 14th of march.


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