frustration, greed, or ignorance?


So all the others need to do is lift the Iranian flag? But you know why they won’t do it? Because they now are the “real” nationalists (according to the latest rally facts). Nationalistic standards shift like moving sands, just like any other ideology. Keep watching the Lebanese and expect more casualties.

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8 thoughts on “frustration, greed, or ignorance?

  1. Bravo Bechir, you catched the only US flag of the whole demonstration. You could be granted the al-mahdi medal for that. Hezbollah isn’t showing Iranian flag lately because they are well organised and their ideology is so explicitly infeoded to the clerics in Iran that they don’t need to do it. I do not see any mention to USA in LF ideology. In addition, and until the proof of the contrary, I didn’t see bags plenty of 100 USD bills and weapons passing by USA or Europe to the LF or other Lebanese parties.

    Maybe Hezbollah isn’t using Iran flag but he is surely using Khomeini and Khamenei pictures. They are EVRYWHERE in Hezbollah visuals. Does that seem normal to you?

  2. albert please re-read my post, I don’t think you got the meaning of it, just like you don’t get much of what I say. This is too bad because for you to express yourselve – from the viewpoint that you think i’m ideological like you – you end up showing me how blocked you are in your little narrow Christian elitist enclave.

    soon i will post something on loubnanouna so stay tuned…

    sans rancune
    bechir

  3. Bech,

    First. You did not reply

    Second. I am more attacking your attacks that defending the FL.

    Third. I am not ideological as you are because I have BLANCED opinions and someone BALANCED cannot be ideological. I am the first critic of the Lebanese right wing in Lebanon and my disgust toward the 14th march equals my feeling toward Hezbollah (anything like that in your thoughts?)

    Fourth. I imagine that you will try to demolish Loubnanouna. I would wish for you to ask more about it before writing an article (on what? nothing is public yet). It would be a pleasure to explain to you that we are not fascists, that we do not aim to divide the country or to sell it to the USA. We are just trying to promote clean politics and a project which is criticaly missed in Lebanon.

  4. Well I see that apocraphyte has shown how balanced you are.

    I still have your “charter” that I can comment on. Specifically the total blessing you give to UN decisions. Maybe you forget sometimes who stands behind the UN.

    I think you have, among others of course, to sorts of people in Lebanon. Those who say, yes we are with the US (or sometimes Israel why not) and there is no shame to that. I just think it’s destructive that’s all but they have the right to prefer the US. I like a lot of things for my part emanating from US institutions and I think we have a lot to learn from the US (like educatione etc.) but when it comes to current foreign policy…

    Anyway the secont sorts of people are those who hide behind the UN-legitimating-argument. Maybe they are to subtle to say the US, they prefer to say “the UN”, because it looks more Lawful (it’s the symbol of international law after all).

    So on this point for now I criticize the group http://www.loubnanouna.org
    and for now on this point only. I think that not understanding Hezbollah as an effect of political dead-ends within Lebanon and hiding behind international “lawful” pretenses will lead to more destruction.

    Put your head in the mud before thinking you can pull things together. When you look at the dark reality you (or your environment has created) and you fully understand it then you can transform it into gold. You can’t turn a blind eye to it.

    You know I remember that one day you sent me an email saying something like: “hey bechir do you now realize that Bush can do good things for the Middle East?” This was right after the “Cedar revolution”.

  5. I remember many things you told me too, like Lebanon doesn’t mean a thing to you, and that your political judgments are solely based on the prism of the Israeli Arab conflict. You do not consider at all Lebanese interests in the equation because nationalism is chauvinistic by essence in your spirit (correct me if you have changed). So I really do not know how you can judge Lebanese politics if the country is only a piece of a regional conflict for you. So how can you evaluate what is the best for you and your country if you do not have the minimal affection for Lebanon? I cannot understand, because what is bad for Israel is not necessarily good for Lebanon in my view (I think it is the main problem with Hezbollah and its divine victories). And what’s good for Lebanon isn’t necessarily bad for Israel. Regional politics is not a zero sum game Bechir…

    As for what I’ve said to you previously in a mail, I reassert it now. Cedars revolution, I do believe it is a silly name for a purposeless gathering, was a good thing even if it failed to lead to any change. I was critical of 14 March since the first day (read my article on http://www.tribune-libanaise.com/tribune/article.php3?id_article=26) but I am not as cynical as you are to condemn a day that has shown that Lebanese do care about their country and that they are ready to move their asses for it. And I do prefer the current situation, which is really not good, to the situation prevailing before 2005. In those days, it was the basics as the liberty of speech and opinion and the independence of our country that were compromised. But oh, excuse me, I forgot…I don’t think you were concerned by that as you weren’t bothered in your upper class “christian elitist enclave” and Lebanon independence meant and still mean so little to you…

    One word about Loubnanouna, please acknowledge that a movement of 1000 people contains a lot of diversity and different opinions. I do not agree with everything, so do not bother to criticize Bachir Gemayel visuals that are currently on the first page or other material, I am categorically against these forms of fetishism. As for the ideas and philosophy of the movement, I’ll be glad to engage any discussion on that, especially that the whole ensemble is still in construction and that it’s the best time to add or reform something (I an serious).

    Apocraphyte, I find the 50 000 people figure very weird, I could swear that I have seen more that 300 000 people there, although I find the demonstration done by Loubnanouna quite convincing.

    I will get fired if I continue. I’ll try to continue our discussion later on.

  6. I am not a nationalist it is true but I try to find what is good for the people instead of finding what is only good to make an idea beautiful (like nationalism).

    I am not a nationalist in the sense that I don’t let the idea of a nation take precedence on the health and stability of a population.

    In the case of the current events, being a nationalist or not is not really the question. But being one type of nationalist, that visions Lebanon in just one way, saying “our lebanon” (Loubnanouna), as if they want to say “not their Lebanon”, is clearly something harmful for the country.

    And don’t try to tell me that Hezbollah wants “their” Lebanon because until now if you judge from their actions, they have been calling for consensus and pluralism too. And I invite to present contrary evidence to that. but think before you answer to that.

    Bear in mind that although I’m not a nationalist, I don’t think at all that what is good for Israel is good for Lebanon (in the current circumstances. These are points we have developed on this website many times so if you don’t agree please present alternative arguments.

    Maybe viewed from one Christian side (not all of it), peace with Israel could be beneficial for this enclave but unfortunately this will come at the price of an alienation of the rest of the country. And even many Christian today, if not the majority, understand that they don’t want to live in isolation (choosing a strong state instead of a federal confessional system). What a better choice when other parties are reaching out for this strong state?

    It is true that many people that moved at the day that was called “cedar revolution” day where really convinced and were honorable in many ways, but don’t you think that those who move for the victory of a resistance group against an invasion are also honorable in many ways?

    Albert instead of thinking who is “morally” wrong in terms of a scale of “dedication” to the “Lebanese” cause, think of how we can make all these people of flesh and bone and not ideas live better. You will find that in the battle of ideas none of us will win, but in helping people have a stable system of compromise and consensus so that the country (and the region) may develop, there are many ways to do it. All you need is skilfull politicians.

  7. Bechir,

    A final word to close this argument properly. It has gone too far in adversity and its not like this that we will clarify anything. I must admit that there is a deep misunderstanding between us, we clearly see things very differently, but we will try to sort it out with maturity…so forget the Iranian accusation, we will engage in a serious discussion when I see you (if you don’t avoid me of course)!
    But before stopping to bother you in your political certitudes, let me clarify in a few lines some points of our previous discussion, it will help me sleep better…

     A thing we surely agree on is the definition of nationalism. “I am not a nationalist in the sense that I don’t let the idea of a nation take precedence on the health and stability of a population”. Well seen Bechir. That’s exactly the core of my problem with Hezbollah. In the name of a nationalism (in the best case but I will not go into that now) they dump the “Health and stability of a population”. Unless you think that keeping the southern border ignited brings health and stability. So lets forget together this borderless nationalism that claim to liberate a bunch of farms at the price of the stability and the mental and cultural health of a whole country and start thinking about how to develop a country…and believe me it is not the Chebaa farms or the absence of Samir Kantar that will impede development
     You also said “And don’t try to tell me that Hezbollah wants “their” Lebanon because until now if you judge from their actions, they have been calling for consensus and pluralism too. And I invite to present contrary evidence to that. but think before you answer to that”. I hate to use quotes (especially when talking about Hezbollah, its like talking about miracles when discussing faith, its too easy), but Hassan Nasrallah has proven a strong evidence of consensus when he said a few months ago that Hezbollah will cut the hands those who will try to disarm them, disarmament being a major goal for a big portion of Lebanese. Hezbollah has also proven very open to dialogue by labeling everyone who dared to contradict them on disarmament and on the presence of the Lebanese army in the south, by sionist. Really consensual and pluralistic. In addition from being formed by militants belonging to one sect, as all other main political groups in Lebanon, Hezbollah has an evident theological aspect in his ideology and he is headed by a cleric (who didn’t forget to remind us of it when he was caricaturized in bassamat watan). Hezbollah (we also often forget that this mean the party of God !) is the essence of a sectarian party even if he can outpass sometimes his profound identity. I really cannot understand how you , Bechir Saade, with such an acute critical sense don’t see all that and more while being able to find an American flag in Harissa.
     You also said “ I don’t think at all that what is good for Israel is good for Lebanon in the current circumstances” of course not, not in a absolute way, we are enemies after all and I wont think a minute that Israel works for the benefits of Lebanon. But where we disagree is that I’m strongly convinced (details in a face to face) that Israel’s main strategic objective in Lebanon is the stability of its southern border. We have caused them so many troubles that they want the minimal involvement in Lebanon. I think that while they tried (and the US) the division of Lebanon in the 70’s 80’s, they now are betting on the state. They clearly want the Lebanese state to control the border so they could buy their stability, and if Lebanon get divided, in any form or the other, who will the inherit in south? Well Hezbollah but with full powers. In that sense, Israel interest to have minimal troubles from Lebanon and to bet for an active State join my interest to close the last active border of the israelo-arab conflict and to empower a unique institutional legitimacy. Hezbollah has done everything to avoid that (they always refused any border demarcation with Syria), the “we live in a perpetual kerbalaa” of Nasrallah providing a guideline to perpetuate the possibilities of armed conflicts in the south. Bechir, the violence of the Hezb contradicts all my cultural values and their “liberation by violence at all costs” is proving to be very damage full for the country. If this can be discussed, their monopoly on the southern affairs management cannot. They cannot impose their solution for the conflict with Israel. No doubts that we must solve it by understanding the roots of the situation, by dialogue and vision, but the first step is to recognize that it is a national problem.
     As for the US and the UN, no one is afraid to say anything Bechir, especially Loubnanouna that are much more straightforward than that. The problem of the US can be solved in two lines: the positions we are defending were always here, and the US were against them for nearly two decades. What you call Christian right wing has always wanted to see the army in the south, to see hezbollah disarmed, to return to the 49 armistice with Israel, to kick Syria out… The US change of politics and its greater middle east didn’t introduce anything new in regard to those people…and to Loubnanouna who welcomes the US support if there are no concessions (I’am not saying there aren’t for the hariri and others…). As for UN and Loubnanouna, I don’t think than anyone serious could declare “we are against UN because the US are dominating it” in an about us. It’s a pity to see that Lebanon who always armed himself with UN legitimacy is now becoming an outlow in regards of international resolutions. After calling for the application of 425 for 20 years, Lebanon is now opposing that resolution that did not include Shebaa within its blue line. The problem of the UN in respect to Lebanon is the execution of resolutions not the resolutions themselves. If they were to be executed all, we would live in a heaven Bechir…so of course we declare our deep respect of the UN charter and resolutions. That won’t stop us to be critic if we oppose something in particular…

    Well it was longer than I expected but I hope it will clarify some points. I’ll continue to read your blog silently, a question of defining myself since I apparently do it according to your positions. Hope that London isn’t driving you megalomaniac… 🙂

    Albert

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